[Accura]

Will Save the Ribble be making clear that their objections did not include the plans for the docks or the Lancaster Canal?

[Riversider]

We've always made it clear that it is the barrage and floodplain housing ideas we object to. We warned long ago that unless the council renounced these parts of the Riverworks ideas, they could end up scuppering the whole package. Unfortunately the council did not listen.

If the council are willing to publicly dump the barrage and housing plans now, (there is absolutely no point in wasting public money by including these unacceptable options in any feasibility study) and consider environmentally friendly and carbon neutral alternatives that do not raise the flood risk (perhaps along the lines of the alternative proposals that Save The Ribble are currently preparing), we will be the first to applaud their (albeit late) conversion to a more responsible and responsive approach and a less developer-led and profit-driven view of Preston's future.

Interestingly the Tories nationally have turned wholeheartedly against building in floodplains: http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=2999139

It will be interesting to see if local Tories match their national leaders words with actual deeds.

[El Toro]

Now call me an old cynic.......But reading between the lines here, it seems as if all parties are rather happy about the cash award and will end up arguing about what department and discussion group will be funded and by how much!.

Take a peek in a years time and see how much has been squandered on meetings and commitees..etc,etc....blah!, blah, blah!!

http://www.lep.co.uk/features?articleid=3011454


Take a peek in a years time and see how much has been squandered on meetings and commitees..etc,etc....blah!, blah, blah!!

Power to your elbow, brain, brawn, heart, whatever.....Riversider!!

Be safe!

[Riversider]

Thanks El Toro, that's a really interesting link.

What is bizarre here (and quite outrageous) is that while the Barrage is now so unpopular that noone on the council will come out in public and defend it, we are still going to waste £ tens of thousands £ in public money on a feasibility study into the idea.

This suggests to me that there are still people lurking in the shadows who will do whatever they think is neccessary to push these barrage plans through, despite the overwhelming opposition of the public, despite the increased flood threat to our homes, and despite the devastating consequences for nature.

As I said earlier, I fear that despite having no democratic mandate, these ideas are not yet dead, and it may need tremendous resistance from Preston and Penwortham people to prevent the barrage and floodplain housing from ever happening.

Start thinking about effective resistance tactics now!

[Riversider]

The latest political figure to distance themselves from the Riverworks Barrage is David Borrow MP.

He seems very angry about the way Preston Council has ignored the views of his constituents on this:

The ex-Preston Council leader said the authority had shown "complete disregard" for the views of people in South Ribble, despite Penwortham river banks believed to be targets for a major housing development under the scheme.

He has written a very strongly worded to Preston City Council saying

I will not allow the views of my constituents to be ignored and South Ribble Council to be treated like a small parish council.

Some may find his words surprising, as Mr Borrow is actually a member of the Preston City Vision Board that came up with the Barrage idea in the first place.

Of course if Mr Borrow has now realised that his loyalties must be to the voters of South Ribble, who are overwhelmingly opposed to the barrage and the accompanying housing scheme, rather than to his wealthy colleagues on the Vision Board, that is only to be welcomed.

[Paul]

Yes it's quite interesting and he's right when he says "I will not allow the views of my constituents to be ignored and South Ribble Council to be treated like a small parish council."

[Riversider]

The fact that there have been nearly 5000 views of this topic - (and the continued popularity of the Save The Ribble Blog) shows just what a high level of interest from Preston and South Ribble people there continues to be in this issue.

Lets hope our councillors make every effort to get themselves fully informed BEFORE deciding to spend large amounts of public money on investigating the feasibility of unacceptable and irresponsible ideas, like the barrage and floodplain housing.

[MJG]

Morning All - just got back from my hols touring around Europe.

Riversider you'd have hated one place I visited........... environmental thugs have totally destroyed this lagoon area building houses, shops and marinas. The site was previously a haven for migrating birds and other wildlife which has been forced out. The area regularly floods and they have massive pollution control problems. Terrible......here's a link to a photo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wenecja_Canal_Grande.JPG

[Riversider]

Most humorous Jeremy, but what you make are actually quite serious points - many experts question how long Venice can continue to exist, like New Orleans, it has been built at the very limits of what the environment will permit, and it's continued survival depends on huge regular investment, which it gets because so many people live there, because it is a historic and cultural treasure and because of the thriving tourist industry it generates.

In the Ribble a barrage would demand the regular investment of huge resources too, just like the Cardiff Barrage it would create the need for regular dredging to remove accumulating silts, pumping stations to keep groundwater out from under our homes, oxygenation systems to maintain water quality, other measures to control blue green algae and other stinking detritus that would gather behind such a structure, and it would mean the need for vast amounts of re-stocking of migratory fish, none of which would be neccessary if we did not build a barrage in the first place.

Barrages and floodplain housing increases the flood-risk: as a Broadgate resident, I really don't fancy getting round the local streets by Gondola.

Just as noone is advocating the destruction of Venice, which has been a treasure house of culture for hundreds of years, so we should not be advocating the destruction of the Ribble's fragile environment, which has been a treasure house of nature for tens of thousands of years - Lets find ways that Preston can benefit from the beauty and biodiversity of the Ribble that don't involve destroying what makes Preston so great in the first place.

[Bing Bong]

I agree as well. No barrage - its a bad idea all round.

[Accura]

I tend to agree with what Riversider is saying, except on the dredging subject. I believe that the Ribble needs dredging as it is now. Below Preston, much of the riverbank looks like an eyesore due to silts which wash up on the bank. Would it not be better to collect these silts and distribute them in the estuary where they are needed?

[MJG]

I was also making a serious point in that not all development is bad simply because it seeks to modify the natural environment.......let's think about other waterfront heritage sites such as London, Bangkok, Sydney and so on.

We seem to live in an age that treasures our historic built environment but seeks to curtain contemporary projects of a similar nature.

Without wanting to start a Venice debate the issues associated with saving the city relate directly to the construction methods used, in that wood was used to underpin the buildings and it is rot and water removal from aquifers rather than anything else that they are battling against.

[Riversider]

This transcript of a TV programme from 2002 shows that the Venice situation is far more complex than just a matter of wooden underpinnings: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2914_venice.html

"The Venice you know today cannot be preserved as it is today. Because all the data we have on global sea level and local sea level is to our disadvantage when it comes to the city of Venice. It was built on a salt marsh, at sea level, in a sinking area, and unfortunately sea level is rising."

Even temporary measures to protect Venice are estimated to be likely to cost $3billion, and these would have to be followed up with an even bigger expenditure.

Similarly, if we build a barrage across the Ribble, we will be mortgaging our future - it will cost a huge amount, year after year for as long as it is there just to attempt to rectify some of it's worst effects on the environment. Mitigating the effects of the Cardiff Barrage is costing the Welsh Assembly £20 million a year.

Who do you think will be required to pay for this unwanted and unneccessary open-ended bill? I think we can guarantee it will not be those companies that will make vast profits from building the Ribble barrage in the first place.

The key difference between Venice and Preston is that the Venice intervention is neccessary to save the City, and keep unwanted water out. In Preston we are doing pretty well without any barrage, and any barrage that raises the water level (keeping the river permanently at high tide), must also raise our flood risk - we would literally be 'buying ourselves a whole heap of trouble'.

There are far less dangerous, (and much cheaper) ways we could use the River and it's environment to Preston's economic and social advantage - I suggest a few in this thread: http://www.prestonlancs.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=611

Ecologically sound sustainable development can be economically beneficial too, drawing in eco-tourism and promoting the 'feelgood factor' among city residents - and much cheaper to maintain than huge disruptive structures like barrages...

If you are looking for a really sustainable vision, that we can all benefit from, think about replicating and extending the Ribble Coast and Welands Regional Park up and along the Ribble's banks and linking up with Brockholes - think of all those eco-tourists walking, cycling and horse-riding along it's banks as the Ribble Way becomes one of the greenest and most accessible routes in the country - a walk to rival the Pennine Way or Hadrian's Wall for diversity, history and beauty, taking you from the ecological treasure house of the Ribble Estuary, past civil war battlefields, buried Viking Hoards and Roman Settlements, right up into the Ribble Valley, and the Trough of Bowland, and even, for the determined walker or rider, by a circuitous route into the Lake District. (Works in the opposite direction too!).

Think a couple of years ahead - all those holidaymakers driven off their flights by carbon quotas and levies will need alternative green leisure opportunities in the UK, and we could be the area that offers this, based on the immense unexploited assets of our amazing local history and ecology, with Preston becoming the focal point for information, equipment, accomodation and sustenance for the weary traveller - time for some 21st Century thinking, instead of being stuck in the overblown 'Millennium Dome' style thinking of the 80's and 90's that certain overpaid consultancy firms seem to be rehashing incessantly to anyone they can point a flipchart at.

I'm also optimistic - A City can be made special by protecting and celebrating it's countryside, and it's future can be enhanced by treasures from it's past.

[MJG]

Whilst I was trying not to get into a Venice debate I think that you're missing a massive and fundamental issue in that Venice has happily existed for centuries without the need for massive investment.

You have also apparently missed my comment about water extraction from aquifers being one of the root causes. This extraction has now stopped and is actually being reversed and Venice is now sinking at the rate of 0.5mm per year - the same at the entire coast. It is believed that is due to plate techtonic effects.

Anyway let's not get hung up on this one.

[smurf]

Not sure if this is the right thread but what do people think about these floating houses that have been suggested for the floodplain?

[Riversider]

Smurf, I think floating houses are appropriate for Holland, Venice and New Orleans, but not for Preston.

In Preston we have plenty of brownfield areas that are not operational floodplain, and are not part of our beautiful green belt where we could be building housing.

The land by the Ribble is used by footballers, cyclists, horse riders, anglers, farmers and allotment keepers. It's just that the greedy property developers want to cash in and turn all this beautiful and socially useful land into suburbia, and it seems our council wants to help them.

The crazy and irresponsible plans to barrage the Ribble and build housing in it's floodplain must be stopped. The fact that the council are investigating floating houses shows how determined they are to press ahead with these deeply unpopular and stupid ideas.

Read more on the 'Save The Ribble' blog